Well done kpop. I hope many more follow your example and simply surrender their so called privileges in this organisation.
I give them no help whatever - either practical, intellectual, or financial.
Nicholaus Kopernicus
JoinedPosts by Nicholaus Kopernicus
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Was it just me or was something different about the memorial last night?
by kpop inthis was the first memorial that i declined to do any work for the memorial.
i was assigned as a parking attendant after getting downgraded from doing the sound and had no intention of doing either task but i had to attend for my family and continuation of my fade.
i sat there last night listening to the talk and couldn't help but shake my head as my brain attempted to process the bs.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
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So, any comments from the Memorial?
by NewYork44M inperhaps i missed the comments, but i did not see a lot of comments from, or about, the memorial.
it happened last night, right?.
in years past the jwn board was hot with comments.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
The elder giving the memorial talk in my congregation quoted 1 Cor 11:20 to show why individuals should not partake....
" Therefore, when YOU come together to one place, it is not possible to eat the Lord’s evening meal."
I have no recollection of this verse having been used before, and especially its being used out of context like that!
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Another recorded Judicial Meeting...
by NikL ini've listened to quite a few but for some reason, this one has me really angry.. my heart goes out to the young family dealing with this bull shite.. give a listen.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifkpiqigq9c.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
What an outrageous and truly eggregious decision by that judicial committee. They came across to me as being quite conceited. Their application of Acts 2:21 (de jeur elevation of "customary practice") is a wanton act of pure sophistry. The judicial committee's handling of scripture is exemplary of 2 Peter 3:16 wherein it is said:"... In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
The composure of the victims is to be admired. They are quite correct when they told the committee that they are loosing decent people. Indeed, this organisation is proving rather adept at such haemorrhaging of nice folks who wish to be open minded.
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Cuts since 2012
by pepperheart ini know that on paper the watchtower have about 8 million members but what if lots of them are just around so they dont get shunned and dont give any money in the box..they have been making cuts for a long time and in 2012 they closed 20 branch offices around the world,of course some people are giving lots of, money but they have to find the money for from 40 and 60 million magazaines a month..
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
OnTheWayOut stated: "... they are suffering monetarily."
The WT has elevated their annual "ways of giving" artcle to a study item in the WT magazine. The article in question is entitled: "Seeking Riches That Are True". A sign that they are desperate or nearly so. It might exacerbate meeting attendance problems!
In my cong, at least 6 families have ceased giving due to the child abuse issue, the UN issue, and the aberant behaviour of the local BoE.
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Just a quick Poll...Do you think the GB is sincere?
by NikL ini've been thinking about this the past few days and curious what the honest consensus is here just for fun.. show of hands,.
is the governing body.... a: completely sincere.
they really do believe what they teach.. b: somewhat sincere.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
C: Completely insincere.
Rationale: their treatment of victims of child abuse is reprehensible; they compound the mal-experience of victims; they evidence a lack of compassion re victims. They are capricious re doctrine; their treatment of the flock is shameful - demands re attire, prohibition of higher education, incessantly alluding to need for money and portraying such as faithfulness and giving to God. Their preoccupation with self as GB and FDS and increasing ingress of congregations via video - hardly discreet. Even picturing one of them on 2017 convention invitation. Hardly humble.
The list could go on. They are charlatans!
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WT July 2017 Study (Pecuniary) Edition
by Nicholaus Kopernicus inthis edition of the wt has an article ("seeking riches that are true) which forcefully seeks financial contributions..... .
paragraph 3 equates giving to the wtbts as synonymous with giving to god.... .
"as christians, we do well to examine our view of today’s commercial system by asking ourselves such questions as these: ‘how can i use my material possessions to show faithfulness to god?".
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
This edition of the WT has an article ("Seeking Riches That Are True) which forcefully seeks financial contributions....
Paragraph 3 equates giving to the WTBTS as synonymous with giving to God....
"As Christians, we do well to examine our view of today’s commercial system by asking ourselves such questions as these: ‘How can I use my material possessions to show faithfulness to God?"
Paragraph 8 gives the strong impression that contributions finance the preaching work and is equated with being faithful!...
"An obvious way to prove ourselves faithful with our material things is by contributing financially to the worldwide preaching work that Jesus foretold would take place."
Quite a shocker is this article. Guarantees my absence when it is "studied" at KH. They have no shame at all! I think things must be getting desperate. I remember BBC Radio 4's "Reporters" documentary saying that the compensation awarded one victim of child abuse in the UK was the equivalent of £5 per publisher. That's just one case and doesn't include an equivalent per publisher for the legal costs. They really must be feeling the squeeze!
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James 3:17 & the hypocrisy of the GBoJW / WTBTS
by Nicholaus Kopernicus injames 3:17 - but the wisdom from above is first of all chaste, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, not making partial distinctions, not hypocritical.
(nwt) .
matthew henry's commentary:.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
James 3:17 - But the wisdom from above is first of all chaste, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, not making partial distinctions, not hypocritical. (NWT)
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
Observe here, True wisdom is God's gift. It is not gained by conversing with men, nor by the knowledge of the world (as some think and speak), but it comes from above. It consists of these several things:-
1. It is pure [chaste NWT] , without mixture of maxims or aims that would debase it: and it is free from iniquity and defilements, not allowing of any known sin, but studious of holiness both in heart and life...
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
The WTBTS / Jehovah's Witnesses are full of maxims and corporate aims. For example: "theocratic order", "reaching for privileges"; "universal sovereignty"; "listen, obey, and be blessed" to name but a few.
The aim is to magnify the importance of the governing body, obey bodies of elders, and remain loyal to the organisation.
It is replete with cases of child abuse which it maintains it is dealing with adequately as an institution and does not seek expertise on the matter to protect children.
It is studious of it's own eisegetical publications rather than that “which is holy”.
Thus, I cannot see this organisation as exemplifying James' teachings re purity / chastity. I cannot possibly provide any support for its activities / teachings as being based on wisdom from above.
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
2. The wisdom that is from above is peaceable. Peace follows purity, and depends upon it. Those who are truly wise do what they can to preserve peace, that it may not be broken; and to make peace, that where it is lost it may be restored. In kingdoms, in families, in churches, in all societies, and in all interviews and transactions, heavenly wisdom makes men peaceable.
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
My experience is that this organisation is far from peaceable. Their BoEs (in my experience) behave as though they were the temple police typified under the leadership of Caiaphas in the 1st century. They, and the organisation are heavily reliant on guilt tripping, are highly directive, and practice and enforce separatism. Hardly a peaceful experience / paradigm.
The BoE are complicit in projecting a corporate productivity paradigm of more ministry hours, more RV's, more BSs, more meeting participation. They are part of a restless human machine which is never satisfied or content. Hardly peaceable!
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
3. It is gentle (reasonable NWT) , not standing upon extreme right in matters of property; not saying nor doing anything rigorous in points of censure; not being furious about opinions, urging our own beyond their weight nor theirs who oppose us beyond their intention; not being rude and overbearing in conversation, nor harsh and cruel in temper. Gentleness may thus be opposed to all these.
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
This organisation is far from reasonable / gentle. It has a judicial committee system founded upon its own legalisms and in practice, such are elevated above scripture. It has been a nihilistic and divisive influence in the lives of many families. See how cruel it can be in this video broadcast from Radio Canada....
How reasonable is it for a group of males in New York USA to presume to publish with the intention of directing family life when the head of every man is the Christ and when the Bible advises all to "lead a quiet life and mind your own business" - 1 Th 4:11?
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
4. Heavenly wisdom is easy to be entreated (ready to obey NWT), (eupeitheµs); it is very persuadable, either to what is good or from what is evil. There is an easiness that is weak and faulty; but it is not a blamable easiness to yield ourselves to the persuasions of God's word, and to all just and reasonable counsels or requests of our fellow-creatures; no, nor to give up a dispute, where there appears a good reason for it and where a good end may be answered by it.
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
The WTBTS is far removed from being able to be entreated. It is staunchly hierarchical and accustomed to prescription rather than listening. It directs that JW's should be "ready to obey" - an eisegetical translation and code meaning that JW's are to follow the institutional leadership / be followers of men. Nevertheless they cherry pick scriptures and are focussed on what their literature claims of scripture rather than yielding to scripture itself and acknowledging context.
No, they are not easily entreated but are extremely rigid and nonchalant. They ignore their own platitudes re obedience by striving to avoid court direction. Their disposition evidences that they are predisposed to being oleaginous. This part of James 3:17 (“ready to obey”) is willfully taken out of context by the JW leadership and is held to be a qualification for being appointed as an elder. This despite their Benefit book chapter 22 which lauds proper application of scripture / acknowledging context. So they’re not even true to what they themselves publish!
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
5. Heavenly wisdom is full of mercy and good fruits, inwardly disposed to everything that is kind and good, both to relieve those who want and to forgive those who offend, and actually to do this whenever proper occasions offer.
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
You can be disfellowshipped for disagreeing with them despite the recent acknowledgement that the GB are not perfect/inspired and get things wrong. How is that merciful?
How is the changing of doctrines good fruit? How is their reliance on legal rebuttals in response to child molestation lawsuits good fruitage?
How is their requiring the sacrifice of life rather than a blood transfusion good fruitage?
They are not disposed to forgiveness. Pre-emptive shunning is widely practiced for such little things as...
- - irregular meeting attendance
- - not answering up
- - not using the NWT Bible
- - refusing "privileges"
- - irregular ministry
- - questioning BoE decisions
None of the above are wrong and require being forgiven mind you! But when pre-emptive shunning is the response to such, how is this being "inwardly disposed to everything that is kind and good"?
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
6. Heavenly wisdom is without partiality [partial distinctions NWT] . The original word, adiakritos, signifies to be without suspicion, or free from judging, making no undue surmises nor differences in our conduct towards one person more than another. The margin reads it, without wrangling, not acting the part of sectaries, and disputing merely for the sake of a party; nor censuring others purely on account of their differing from us. The wisest men are least apt to be censurers.
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
This organisation is riddled with partial distinctions. How many hirsute individuals hold "privileges" or are appointed men?
How many individuals do you see behind the lectern who do not wear a suit?
If you usually do wear a suit but with a slim fitting cut (eg tight pants as they say in the USA) then how will you be treated? Supposing you like hair gel?
Isn't it the case that this organisation is exemplary of intolerance?
What about the treatment of women? No scriptural precedent for a sister being prohibited from roving microphone, attendant, literature desk etc. Why are they prohibited from wearing trousers? Trousers are surely "modest and well arranged"! Theresa May and Angela Merkel look fine in them! Why such a problem with the GBoJW?
See this OP....
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5678288265543680/wtbts-partial-distinctions-james-3-17
MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY:
7. That wisdom which is from above is without hypocrisy. It has no disguises nor deceits. It cannot fall in with those managements which the world counts wise, which are crafty and guileful; but it is sincere and open, steady and uniform, and consistent with itself.
MY OBSERVATIONS / EXPERIENCES OPINION:
It is reliant on graduates of law schools in a shameful endeavor to protect it from the onslaught of lawsuits from child abuse victims. Yet it disdains the higher education which is the ultimate source of such professionals.
Similarly, it needs graduates to provide for its branch and other building / real estate plans despite the antipathy for higher education.
Indeed, if you are a JW and pursue a higher education you will be socially censured. Your father will have his elder qualifications reviewed if he is on the BoE.
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Observations From an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Searching for the Lost Sheep
by doubtfull1799 in"what man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it?
" - luke 15:4. disclaimer: by posting the following observations i am not complaining.
i am happy to be left alone.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
Doubtfull1799:
Your experience comes as no surprise to me. The JW organisation is one which is highly stratified / directive. Thus, the organisation cannot produce shepherds as such. The focus of the organisation in practice is that of policing its affiliates. Therefore, its "shepherds" tend to function as de facto police officers such is the appalling environment of influence which they are constantly exposed to. This is rather like the temple police in the first century who carried out the direction of the then ecclesiastical authority (Sanhedrin). Their role also parallels the muttawa (spiritual police) in Saudi Arabia and Malaysia to an extent.
In terms of shepherding, being encouraging, supportive, comforting, and other higher functioning in the realms of counselling and catharsis, my assessment is that by far, most BoEs in the JW org are just not capacitous.
Their dysfunction reminds me of the cliché - "They who expect nothing shall not be disappointed!"
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BRITAIN ZONE VISIT - 18th March 2017
by Nicholaus Kopernicus ina. llewellyn – wt summary (“why modesty still matters”).
i won’t go into this much as an individual can read it for themselves and conclude as s(he) sees fit.
what i would say however, is that i remember llewellyn using phrases like “knowing your place in jehovah’s organisation” and “taking care not to act presumptuously”.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
I've not come across this Papps before. However, discovered he did some media responses (I think before Paul Gillies did it). The example here is his response to BBC on blood issue....
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BRITAIN ZONE VISIT - 18th March 2017
by Nicholaus Kopernicus ina. llewellyn – wt summary (“why modesty still matters”).
i won’t go into this much as an individual can read it for themselves and conclude as s(he) sees fit.
what i would say however, is that i remember llewellyn using phrases like “knowing your place in jehovah’s organisation” and “taking care not to act presumptuously”.
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Nicholaus Kopernicus
A. Llewellyn – WT Summary (“Why Modesty Still Matters”)
I won’t go into this much as an individual can read it for themselves and conclude as s(he) sees fit. What I would say however, is that I remember Llewellyn using phrases like “knowing your place in Jehovah’s organisation” and “taking care not to act presumptuously”. I’ve singled out these two thoughts as they came across as quite condescending.
For example, “knowing your place” – yes the organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses is one of the most highly stratified of religious organisations on earth today. To act outside of one’s place is therefore probably seen as a lack of modesty. Of course, this organisation is one which disseminates information only. It does not listen. So is it any wonder that individuals increasingly ignore this perceived “place” and seek a listening ear elsewhere? Such as for example, this online forum?
My ears popped up when Llewellyn talked about not acting presumptuously! Well, north of the border a cliché derived from scripture says that one should “look in before you look out”! The organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses has “presumptuous” as a middle name in practice!
When discussing this subject of modesty, neither Llewellyn or the WT bothers to make reference to the Insight Volume where 1 Cor 4:6 is referenced - “Do not go beyond the things that are written [that is, do not go beyond the limits that the Scriptures set for humans in their attitude toward one another and toward themselves]...” Of course, the WTBTS / GBoJW goes way beyond the things written with regularity.
S. Papps – Branch Report & Experiences
Theme: Blessed in the City & Blessed in the Field (Deut 28:3)
Papps stated that the 2016 harvest work has really blossomed. It is really going forward. Evidence of God’s blessing on the Britain branch of JW he cited as follows....
- · 12 countries in our branch territory, including the Falkland Islands, Malta, and Pakistan.
- · In these territories, there are 149,080 publishers.
- · There has been an increase in pioneer publishers over the last 10 years
- · 14,796 pioneers currently, ranging in age from 11 to 88 years
- · 10% of publishers in Britain are engaged in the pioneer service.
- · Hours in ministry for 2016 service year totalled over 27.4million.
- · Bible studies have increased to over 69,000.
However, Papps concluded, Jehovah doesn’t focus on statistics but on people! He then went on to disclose that 4,350 literature carts have been distributed to congregations. The carts he said, have been instrumental in reaching those who used to serve Jehovah. Then gave an example of an individual who was a former elder and a pioneer (serving for 7 years) who took literature from the cart regularly and expressed an interest in being reactivated.
With reference to cart use in the ministry, Papps stated that there is a need to be consistent, patient, and positive. Reason: results may not be known to us or perhaps be delayed. Went on to add that there has been 4000+ requests for Bible studies made via JW.org.
He gave examples of ministry, including a congregation which organised visits to hand car washes during rainy weather. Another congregation focussed on the two creation brochures and placed 400 in a month.
Papps then moved on to the branch relocation project, revealing that a new and updated video would shortly be released and that in consequence, individuals would be able to see for themselves, Jehovah’s blessing on this project.
For my part, I thought it was very significant that Papps’ portrayal of statistics seemed to be based on the territories supervised by the Britain Branch. He avoided any statistics regarding publisher growth augmenting this by saying that Jehovah doesn’t focus on statistics. The truth is closer to the fact that the publisher numbers in Britain are falling. That there was a paper increase of a paltry 26 in 2016 has to be understood in the context of numbers being buoyed up by significant immigration to Britain (many foreign language congregations and groups for example). If Jehovah doesn’t focus on statistics then perhaps publishers no longer need to submit field service reports?
H. Corkern – “Always Rejoice in the Lord” (Php 4:4)
This talk lasted an hour. Corkern stated that he and his wife visited the branches in Belgium and the Netherlands en route to Britain. (See how “precious kingdom resources” are being used!) I was at a loss as to why he travelled so much to deliver a seemingly innocuous pastoral talk. However, maybe it wasn’t quite so innocuous or pastoral. My ears popped up when Corkern stated that we should never use unscriptural means to get away from trials. Doing so may delay relief or make it more difficult to deal with the trial. He emphasised that one is saved if you endure to the end.
I’m being highly subjective here, but I could not dismiss the suspicion that this HQ high flier was delivering such a message to provide a spiritual / intellectual pretext for not yielding to any governmental / court demands to fundamentally change the WT child safeguarding policy. He went on to affirm not deviating from Jehovah’s standards for example.
I was surprised, but then again not so surprised, when he disclosed that the most common reason for brothers losing their joy is because of one another. [I thought God’s true organisation was marked by love!] In dealing with this subject, he merely mentioned that man tends to error (Psalm 130:3) and there isn’t a man who doesn’t sin (John 8:46). So he side stepped this important issue. He didn’t mention that much of the loss of joy is attributable to BoEs and CO's who think more of themselves than it is necessary to think. He did not take the opportunity to quote the Insight Volume on the subject of humility where it is said:
“And when one person offends another, it tests his humility to obey the command to go to the other person and admit the wrong, asking forgiveness (Matt. 5:23,24)”. Well, he wouldn’t want to upset BoEs by giving them more work to do would he? The unwritten policy of the WT is that BoEs and others in positions of authority simply do not apologise! If you have received an apology from a BoE or an individual elder, do share!